Help wanted: Seal sleuth
What happened to the RVIA seals on some recreation vehicles being shipped to dealers? Did the seals fall off while being transported to the dealers’ lots? Did the manufacturer run out on the assembly line? Is RVIA redesigning the seals and waiting for the initial print order from the manufacturer? Or is something more sinister involved? Where is Chief Inspector Jacques Clouseau when we really need him? Rumor has it that some RV manufacturers have discovered a loophole around building RVs that meet the RV Industry Association’s stringent safety and quality standards. These units are easily identified by the lack of an RVIA seal near the RV’s main entrance door. What’s unusual is that some of the manufacturers with seals missing on their units are actively involved with RVIA and even display units at the National RV Show in Louisville. The issue came about when dealers started noticing seals missing on some units parked on their lots. There is a provision in the RVIA bylaws in which members are required to display “the applicable Membership Identification Seal on all vehicles to which the standards are applicable…” Therein lies the loophole. It’s been pointed out to me that RVIA doesn’t require a seal on travel trailers over 340 square feet. As a result, several manufactures are building RVs without having to submit to or be challenged for complying with RVIA standards.
I haven’t received a response from RVIA regarding the existence of this loophole. But, if it is true, it doesn’t make sense. RVIA loses money by failing to enforce their seal requirements. It’s also a public confidence/public relations problem. Overlooking the ability of some manufacturers to build a unit that doesn’t necessarily meet industry standards would actually give some members preferential treatment over others who play by the rules. Ignoring seal requirements doesn’t sound like something RVIA would knowingly do. I understand that some companies building emergency shelter units post-Katrina successfully argued that they shouldn’t have to purchase seals for units that were never designed to be recreation vehicles, i.e.: they contain no septic holding tanks. Not requiring seals in those instances would make sense for the industry. After all, we wouldn’t want any RV built to substandard specs to be officially recognized by the industry. To do so would give consumers the wrong impression of what a recreation vehicle really is. But, in other instances, a missing seal signals trouble for any RV dealer who opts to carry the unit on his lot. Why? Liability. Imagine if a dealer sells an RV that does not bear the official seal of the RV industry – an insignia that tells consumers the unit was manufactured in accordance with strict construction standards adopted by industry experts. Now imagine if the person buying the “unsealed” unit is seriously injured or killed while using or towing the RV. I’d suspect the legal vultures would descend upon the dealership to find out why they were selling RVs that were knowingly constructed in a way that did not comply with the strict requirements established — and enforced — by the RV industry. As one reader pointed out, “If a dealer sells 90 percent of his units with seals on them and 10 percent of his units don’t have seals, is he not selling something he knowingly admits does not meet minimum acceptable standards and, therefore, does not qualify for the RVIA seal?”
A dealer who is sued over a safety issue involving a sealed unit may stand a better chance of deflecting more liability to the manufacturer who can defend itself by pointing to the industry requirements. But, a dealer selling an unsealed unit may be left hanging from a lamp post by a manufacturer who simply shrugs its shoulders and tells the court, “he knew what he was buying and selling.” The bottom line is how much is a deal really worth? If a dealer is willing to put his company’s reputation and his personal financial security at risk to sell a trailer for $300 or $500 less than models that meet RVIA standards, perhaps he gets what he deserves. But my guess is that most dealers don’t even realize that some RVs are being built without the industry’s official seals – especially if he carries other products from the same manufacturer that bear the seal. It might be a good investment of time on a slow morning to have the sales staff sipping coffee while walking the lot to verify that every RV on that lot bears the seal of the RV Industry Association. If they find one missing, it would be worth a phone call to the manufacturer to discover why they are building units that aren’t up to industry standards and then to learn what that unit in particular is lacking that prevents it from being officially endorsed by the industry. At least then the dealer can make an informed decision as to whether he wants to assume that risk.
I’d also be interested in knowing which manufacturers are shipping units without seals – as would my other dealer readers, I suspect. Some manufacturers might even be interested in knowing which of their competitors are building substandard products, although I suspect a few may already know. What we need is a really good seal sleuth.
June 1st, 2007 at 5:54 am
As we continue this discussion, I thought it might be helpful to review exactly what the RVIA Seal does stand for as published by the Go RVing campaign for consumer eduction. It says:
The RVIA Seal
As you shop for the right vehicle, make sure you look for the oval-shaped Recreation Vehicle Industry Association (RVIA) seal. RVIA is a national association representing RV manufacturers and parts suppliers who together produce more than 95 percent of all RVs manufactured in the United States.
As members of RVIA, manufacturers who display the seal must self-certify compliance with more than 500 safety specifications for electrical, plumbing, heating and fire and life safety established under the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) A119.2 Standard for Recreational Vehicles. Manufacturers are subject to periodic, unannounced plant inspections by RVIA representatives to audit their compliance. Members who fail to maintain an acceptable level of compliance can be expelled from the association, which prohibits them from displaying the RVIA seal on their products.
RVIA members display gold and black seals on motorhomes; silver and black seals on fifth-wheel and other travel trailers; and white and black seals on truck campers and folding camping trailers.
As another condition of RVIA membership, motorhome and trailer manufacturers must post a weight label in a conspicuous location in the vehicle’s interior. Shoppers should locate these labels for information vital to safe operation of the vehicle. The label lists weights and ratings, including the unit’s gross and unloaded weight ratings, as well as carrying capacity. The label will enable you to determine how much weight it can safely transport, including dealer-installed accessories, fuel and other engine fluids, LP gas, fresh water, passengers (for motorized RVs) and personal belongings.
Consult the vehicle owner’s manual for other valuable weight information as well as data on proper weight distribution, how to weigh the vehicle, and towing guidelines.
May 31st, 2007 at 9:21 pm
I’m not sure RVIA is ready to transfer that responsibility to me just yet!
May 31st, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Speaking of Go RVing, I wonder what the ROI on that $16+ million has been for the year.
Oh, it can’t be figured unless the campaign is actually held accountable for SALES of RVs and not just random awareness numbers published in a press release.
Pay me half of that budget and I’ll GUARANTEE increased sales. I’d manage one hard charging, WORKING office delivering qualified customers to dealerships across the nation!
The other half of the budget could go to customer relations and service after the sale.
May 31st, 2007 at 2:28 pm
Good questions Sean, but we may once again be overlooking the real underlying issue here. The problem isn’t the seals, which do serve a beneficial purpose by providing much of the funding for the Go RVing campaign.
You would like to think that quality could and should be controlled by each individual manufacturer, but that’s just not the case.
Accepting that fact, you would like to think that if RVIA is going to have standards and seals, that the minimum thresholds be established at levels that guarantee a high level of customer satisfaction with our industry, and that is not the case right now. That fact is well know and documented in many marketing and research studies that show some disturbing trends and customer attitudes about RV service and quality control.
Are we not once again back to an issue of product quality with some manufacturers that is allowed to exist and the consumer has not yet proven to be adept at figuring out which ones are on which side of the equation.
May 31st, 2007 at 12:39 pm
Here are a few questions I have…
What would happen if the sticker program went away?
Do manufacturers actually need someone to set their standards for them?
Will the market decide which manufacturers should survive and which standards matter?
Why 320SF? Why not 330?
Why do park models not need standards?
And on, and on, and on…
Stickers are comical.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:02 am
You can put whatever name you want on a trailer, and call it whatever you want, but there are units over 320 square feet that are being shipped without seals and they are being displayed on the floor at Louisville and they are not in the so-called park model area in Broadbend Arena.
I think the real issue is the integrity and confidence in a seal program that extracts a large amount of money each year from the consumers (through the dealer, from the manufacturer’s invoice) and the value it is supposed to represent. There are efforts underway to allow manufacturers to build even larger units and does this mean they should be allowed to build them without seals? It does in some people’s minds.
If the industry is going to have a seal of quality and construction program, and if this charge is ultimately being paid by our customers, then any manufacturer that is a member of RVIA should be putting a seal on every unit that leaves the manufacturing floor. There should be no exceptions and there should not be loopholes that allow companies to bypass the association’s own program.
If you build it, put the seal on it. Don’t hide behind the size of your unit or whether or not it is a “park” model. RPTIA does have it’s own program and is hurt by companies that are members of RVIA but ship models called park models but then won’t join RPTIA becuase they actually make their members abide by their rules.
May 30th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
Based on conversations with thousands of RVers I can tell you they couldn’t care less about the sticker. I’ve never heard one of them reference the “standards” that the stickers represent.
Customers don’t care about stickers. They want REAL quality that can only be felt and realized. That is really what sticks.
May 30th, 2007 at 7:09 am
Hello Greg,
Re the lacking RVIA seals, I would have to agree with Saltzgiver and Martinkus that what appears to be “loopholes” are most likely “reality” than an attempt to circumvent the RVIA standards, etc. My guess is that if a pole were taken of RV Manufacturers today, the vast majority have a reasonable Quality Control system in place and that it is enforced.
However, there will always be someone who will attempt to operate outside the Standard. Shame on them…
The vast majority of RVers are quite smart about Quality in their rigs. In truth, they are not easily mislead and can spot shoddy workmanship a mile away.
You might want to take a new aim regarding RV Standards and bring into focus the need for Standards Review Group that would be empowered to bring into conformance a set of Updated Standards (i.e - Mike Martinkus’ comment). Also, maybe it is time that the RV Manufacturers take a look at ISO Standards.
Gene
May 29th, 2007 at 6:59 pm
Hi Greg,
Your statement that there is a loop hole isn’t valid since a unit that is over 320 square feet cannot bear the RVIA seal. These units are not considered travel trailers but instead Park Trailers which is a different catagory and they do not come under the RVIA umberella.
The size limitations for seals is up to 320 square feet. The federal interpretaion for an RV is a travel trailer with less than 320 square feet in its set up position. Any travel trailer over 320 square feet but no more that 400 square feet in its set up position is a Park trailer. The RPTIA (Recreational Park Trailer Industry Assoication) is the governing body for these type of units and they have standards for which these units are to built. They supply a seal that can be put on these units to allow the customers to know that they have been built to a certain standard of safety. The RVIA seal and RPTIA seals simply gives the assurance that these units have been built to a certain standard. The lack of the seal doesn’t mean that a unit wasn’t built to those standards it just means that there is not way to tell what safety standards if any, were used in the quality control of the building of those units.
May 29th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
Greg
While I personally am a proponent of RVIA and it’s certification process, I certainly don’t agree that lack of it’s seal constitutes a “substandard” product.
Most major Bus converters do not carry the seal and never have but I doubt that anyone could mount much of an argument against that nich of the market by using your logic.
If my information is correct, the 1970’s requirement by RVIA that all complying RV’s have dual holding tanks is a seal killer all by it’s self. Most converters provide one tank and I don’t consider that practice to be inferior.I’m guessing that there are more requirements that do not fit todays product but not having all the requirements at hand it is just a guess.
You did cause me to walk the lot and look though !
May 29th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
If you don’t mind my asking? Who are these manufacturers and what do they say about it?