I posted the following not over on the forum pages this week but I think it speak to exactly the points that you bring up. It sounds like you may be from outside the RV industry, which is fine, because you can look at it from a different perspective. I’m not sure why you didn’t like the references to the auto industry, but you will certainly appreciate some of the comments below.

In order to really get improvement in this area the manufacturers themselves must first, build a better product and provide accurate documentation on every aspect of the RV.

A few years ago I visited several manufacturers in the Elkhart/Goshen area to speak to them about document management systems and how they can improve quality control (that’s my real world job). After visiting over ten companies in two days with my local sales rep, he turned to me and said; “unless you tell me that I really have to call on RV companies, I’m never coming back here.”

The reason for his displeasure was our shock at seeing poor the documentation is for engineering drawings and related support information in the RV industry today. We all know the RV industry is quite far behind the automobile manufacturers when it comes to documenting the manufacturing process and having the correct design specifications, bills of materials, purchase specifications and final assembly and QC systems and procedures.

However, this is the source of all the other problems you talk about in this thread. Manufacturers can’t find the right documentation when dealers call, dealers don’t have the right documentation to accurately troubleshoot the problem, and the schematics and parts information is woefully inadequate.

By the way, my sales rep never went back to Elkhart/Goshen and it sounds like there hasn’t been much improvement with several of the culprits that are causing such aggravation to every one who touches the product once it is towed or driven off the manufacturing line.

Until this industry learns how to build them right, document their process, and have an adequate supply of parts to support what the sell, things are never going to improve. And that’s a sad commentary that hurts the companies that do it right, but suffer from a poor image when RVers run into these types of problems.

I just spent a good half hour reading over all of the responses to this most vibrant question. I was impressed by the level of thought expressed (but maybe not the inference to the “auto” industry). Yet, I feel that the word “Quality Conscious” most expresses my feelings about the concern expressed in this question.

I am sure that other readers/writers may share my experience, I, for one, have performed numerous quality surveys, written and instituted several ISO 9000/9001/9002 documents and plans, and generally assisted in tightening up Quality organizations over my many years in the technical community.

Instituting a really “Quality Conscious” organization begins with a committment by the CEO of the Organization. There has to be a hard and fast place where the “Buck” stops dead in its tracks. From that lofty perch of the CEO, the “Quality Conscious” philosophy must flow down to every organizational level. It must be enforced to the enth degree.

That, my friends, is the beauty of the ISO process. Once in place, there is no turning back.

I fully agree with one commentator. Maybe it is time for the RVIA to come to some corporate agreement that it is time to tighten up the image of a $16 Billion industry and institute a 5 year plan to require all members of RVIA to have an ISO approved Quality plan.

What do others think?

I can’t say I agree with you about the auto industry…

I’ve been driving for about 35 years now. From what I’ve observed during that time it appears to me that “the big 3″, as it were, can’t go more then about 12-15 years before there ill-conceived, poorly designed/engineered products run counter to either what the rest of the industry is doing, or to what the consumer desires. When that occurs they go through some very painful times. It’s almost as though they keep making the same mistakes over and over again, and there ever-dwindling market share seems to validate that.

If that’s the same mistake prone pattern the RV industry falls into I really feel sorry for them.

I wasn’t actually comparing anyone in the auto industry to anyone in the RV business. My comments were merely intended to rebuke your assertion that companies don’t get large while not delivering on there promises. The example using Ford and GM was to prove that you can indeed get quiet large in your respective industry, even if you aren’t conducting yourself in the manner your supposed to.

I believe the auto industry grew quite nicely by delivering on their promises. Sure, they had “learning experiences” along the way that knocked them back a step but they came back and grew some more. I think they are in the midst of one of those “learning experinces” now. I have no doubt that they will evolve into what they need to be to grow into the future.

The question here is, “Will the RV industry evolve?”

Just a few days ago your wrote, “I don’t believe you can directly translate the success of one business model to an entirely different industry; what works when selling pickup trucks isn’t necessarily what works for peddling insurance.”

Now you want to tie the big three automakers (manufacturers) that do $200 billion a year (that’s just GM) to a dealer (not a manufacturer) that does less than $1 billion a year. Where’s the logic here?

The RV industry is ten to twenty years behind the automotive industry when it comes to manufacturing techniques and processes, bloated payrolls, unfunded pension plans, and paying an unrealistic percentage of their employees medical benefits.

A completely different animal, but nice try anyway!

And about that beer… I don’t get up your way much but if I was in the position I’d love to. It would be great to chat with a man that has your experience in the industry.

I don’t allow my sales people to offer excuses when they lose a sale, no matter who they lose it to. The sales rep that gets the order did something different to win that customer’s business. I’m not saying that what he or she did was ethical, moral, or illegal … but they did something different, said something different, or (hopefully) presented a more professional presentation of the product and the dealership and gained the customer’s confidence.

I think all of us contributing to this post will agree that there are three critical issues facing the RV industry today and they run rampant through these messages … poor product quality, sales people that don’t know how to sell value and dealers that don’t have the guts to stop selling products that embarrass the entire industry and drive people away from the RV lifestyle.

If you are in New England let me know, I’d love to buy you a beer or a cup of coffee and expand on these ideas and discussions.

But I guess the definition of “successful” is in the semantics; if you mean dollars per unit then you’re probably right, the little guy more then likely would show a better individual gross. But did they improve there year-over profitability too? What about the turn rates? And did there volume go up as well? Given the current state of the industry I can’t fathom how the smaller dealer will be able to compete as effectively as they had in years past.

Unless I misstated something I never meant to imply small dealers can’t compete, only that it’s becoming increasingly difficult for them to do so effectively. Belief in your product is definitely not enough. Neither is touting your excellent customer service. Let’s face it, that mantra is sighted by virtually everyone for everything, but as I’m certain you can attest to it’s not delivered at anywhere near the level it should be. Most consumers, myself included, have become jaded to the idea of *good* service because we so infrequently receive it.

Sighting Lazydays makes my argument for me; high volume, low margin organization willing to make a deal at virtually any amount of gross. I know, I’ve run up against them personally in my salesmen days when I was trying to sell a $250,000 diesel pusher. There gross numbers look good on paper, and they absolutely move a ton of product, but at what cost? What is there margin average per unit? I’ll be willing to bet that it’s a fraction of what the majority sell for. That’s there business model, and they appear quiet successful doing it. But I’m certain they have an achilles heel, and from what I’ve been able to ascertain it might just be there customer service that suffers because of it.

I, like yourself, would applaud some type of industry shift. It’s certainly about time, but what it should be I’m not qualified to even tender a guess. Hopefully it comes with the least amount of pain and the most amount of gain. I don’t know if that’s possible, but it’s certainly my desire.

I was at a State RVDA meeting a few months ago, and I had to listen to several dealers complain about, poor quality, not getting paid warranty, not getting parts on time, and over-all terrible support from their RV manufacturers. I stood up in the meeting and said “then why do you continue to sell those products, all of my companies pay claims well and have great support”. I had too speak my mind. I know what lines these dealers are selling, and those manufacturers have some of the worst reputations in the industry, but they are some of the lowest priced. “You get what you pay for” and “if it’s cheaper, it’s cheaper for a reason”, are the sayings we hear from the media and consumer reports. But, our customers don’t realize that. In most case they are buying what the dealer has to offer. They believe that you, as a dealer, would not sell them a piece of junk. I am very lucky that I am a 30 year old dealer who has picked the best lines to sell based on quality and support. I truly have the pick of the litter, 3 out of 4 of my brands are continually part of the RVDA Quality Circle Award winners. But not all dealers are able to do that. They have to take what is left. And that is usually the B and C rated manufactures. It will take a group effort and a lot of time to get this changed around, but It will need to start with the dealer say “NO, I WONT STAND FOR THAT”