Comments on: Screwed, Enron style http://www.rvtradedigest.com/interactive/2006/11/15/screwed-enron-style/ Welcome to RV Weekly where the editor of RV Trade Digest will be updating you on the latest news, trends, and products important to the RV industry. Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:31:18 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: David Barr http://www.rvtradedigest.com/interactive/2006/11/15/screwed-enron-style/#comment-431 David Barr Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:44:26 +0000 http://www.rvtradedigest.com/interactive/2006/11/15/screwed-enron-style/#comment-431 Yes a Sunline was a higher end product but one that I felt was worth the extra money. I can't remember ever talking to a Sunline owner that didn't agree. The unit that I have now is my third Sunline and my eleventh rv and I have never regreted paying extra. I guess that is why you can go into an automobile showroom and pay $45000 or $20000 for a car that will get you to the same place at the same time. Obviously one is a little beter constructed. Yes a Sunline was a higher end product but one that I
felt was worth the extra money. I can’t remember ever talking to a Sunline owner that didn’t agree. The unit that I have now is my third Sunline and my eleventh rv and I have never regreted paying extra. I guess that is why you can go into an automobile showroom and pay $45000
or $20000 for a car that will get you to the same place at the same time. Obviously one is a little beter constructed.

]]> By: Daniel Chaput http://www.rvtradedigest.com/interactive/2006/11/15/screwed-enron-style/#comment-365 Daniel Chaput Sun, 31 Dec 2006 18:20:36 +0000 http://www.rvtradedigest.com/interactive/2006/11/15/screwed-enron-style/#comment-365 Do you have contact information for Sunline's attorney or upper management? WE may have intereest in buying the company putting the employees back to work and bringing it back to where it should be operating. Daniel Chaput Group 1/USA 401 723 3330 group1usa@gmail.com Do you have contact information for Sunline’s attorney or upper management?

WE may have intereest in buying the company putting the employees back to work and bringing it back to where it should be operating.

Daniel Chaput
Group 1/USA
401 723 3330
group1usa@gmail.com

]]> By: johnny http://www.rvtradedigest.com/interactive/2006/11/15/screwed-enron-style/#comment-152 johnny Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:14:27 +0000 http://www.rvtradedigest.com/interactive/2006/11/15/screwed-enron-style/#comment-152 I would be interested in knowing how may units are presently in dealer inventory (new and unsold) anybody know, or is there any records available. We have worked on several older model Sunline Trailers and found them to be great units. We, as a industry may be called upon to help these new owners out, during this UnFun time in their ownership. Comments ? I would be interested in knowing how may units are presently in dealer inventory (new and unsold) anybody
know, or is there any records available. We have worked
on several older model Sunline Trailers and found them to
be great units. We, as a industry may be called upon to help these new owners out, during this UnFun time in their
ownership. Comments ?

]]> By: Jack http://www.rvtradedigest.com/interactive/2006/11/15/screwed-enron-style/#comment-138 Jack Tue, 21 Nov 2006 22:11:24 +0000 http://www.rvtradedigest.com/interactive/2006/11/15/screwed-enron-style/#comment-138 -Good News -as far as I am concerned - as a Sunline dealer for many years - They screwed me in the mid 80 s -all orginal owners- and as I understand some of the long time employees bought the company-They ( current management) knew what they were doing.  I am sorry for all the regular workers-very unfair. -Good News -as far as I am concerned - as a Sunline dealer for many years - They screwed me in the mid 80 s -all orginal owners- and as I understand some of the long time employees bought the company-They ( current management) knew what they were doing.  I am sorry for all the regular workers-very unfair.

]]> By: Ron http://www.rvtradedigest.com/interactive/2006/11/15/screwed-enron-style/#comment-137 Ron Tue, 21 Nov 2006 21:29:47 +0000 http://www.rvtradedigest.com/interactive/2006/11/15/screwed-enron-style/#comment-137 Comparing the closure of Sunline to Enron is completely off base. Sunline didn't commit fraud, play accounting games, or attempt to screw and deceive it's partners. Announcing beforehand that the company was in trouble would have prevented any chance of a turn-a-round, and started crazy rumors flying. What happened here is no different than other business closure. Fact is; this is news because it's rare to have a RV manufacturer closing its doors, especially one that has been in the industry for so long. If this were a RV vendor or dealer going out of business, I don't believe much would be said in these pages. Nobody wins when a business fails, and somebody is going to feel screwed. Comparing the closure of Sunline to Enron is completely off base. Sunline didn’t commit fraud, play accounting games, or attempt to screw and deceive it’s partners. Announcing beforehand that the company was in trouble would have prevented any chance of a turn-a-round, and started crazy rumors flying. What happened here is no different than other business closure. Fact is; this is news because it’s rare to have a RV manufacturer closing its doors, especially one that has been in the industry for so long. If this were a RV vendor or dealer going out of business, I don’t believe much would be said in these pages. Nobody wins when a business fails, and somebody is going to feel screwed.

]]> By: Tom http://www.rvtradedigest.com/interactive/2006/11/15/screwed-enron-style/#comment-135 Tom Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:38:36 +0000 http://www.rvtradedigest.com/interactive/2006/11/15/screwed-enron-style/#comment-135 I am sure the buyout and added debt load was a problem and that Sunline had made its share of mistakes, but I also believe that dealers and consumers fail to truly care about quality and support and foocus too much on price alone. I was a Sunline dealer in the 1980's and always had the utmost respect for their product and their support. That reputation has always been there. Sunline in my opinion had too many dealers too close together and also abandoned a core 80's standard "microlight" towable market where they made their reputation. That said, however I am also sure they had a very difficult time holding margins in the face of relentless price focused competioton while trying to remain true to their "do things right" values. Low price and lack of support are still far too common in our industry and those manufacturers and dealers are difficult to match on price. Unfortunately consumers don't find out the truth until they are owners. They assume we are all good and our products are all good. Unfortunately the good ones can't compete with the cheap ones. This was most certaily a factor, perhaps a major factor in Sunlines demise. Until we fix that, we are in danger of the same end or gaining a reputation as a substandard, limited support and "no fun" industry. By the way if we take out the FEMA sales, are towables really up 20 percent? I doubt Sunline got any piece of that price-focused action. I am sure the buyout and added debt load was a problem and that Sunline had made its share of mistakes, but I also believe that dealers and consumers fail to truly care about quality and support and foocus too much on price alone. I was a Sunline dealer in the 1980’s and always had the utmost respect for their product and their support. That reputation has always been there. Sunline in my opinion had too many dealers too close together and also abandoned a core 80’s standard “microlight” towable market where they made their reputation. That said, however I am also sure they had a very difficult time holding margins in the face of relentless price focused competioton while trying to remain true to their “do things right” values. Low price and lack of support are still far too common in our industry and those manufacturers and dealers are difficult to match on price. Unfortunately consumers don’t find out the truth until they are owners. They assume we are all good and our products are all good. Unfortunately the good ones can’t compete with the cheap ones. This was most certaily a factor, perhaps a major factor in Sunlines demise. Until we fix that, we are in danger of the same end or gaining a reputation as a substandard, limited support and “no fun” industry. By the way if we take out the FEMA sales, are towables really up 20 percent? I doubt Sunline got any piece of that price-focused action.

]]> By: Jim Miller http://www.rvtradedigest.com/interactive/2006/11/15/screwed-enron-style/#comment-134 Jim Miller Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:22:21 +0000 http://www.rvtradedigest.com/interactive/2006/11/15/screwed-enron-style/#comment-134 Using the Enron example Greg, might not be the best example here. Enron's was pre-meditated by the original founders, Sun-Line's appears to be from the new investors who found out they are over their head in running a viable manufacturing business, thought the bottom line bucks might be easy. Sun-Line did build a good quality trailer, and the ex-dealer is right, they were too much money. A few years back, for us to start up with the line, they offered us big $$$ back after the shipment was floorplanned, payable to us personally. We did not sign as a dealer, only because they were overpriced. Using the Enron example Greg, might not be the best example here. Enron’s was pre-meditated by the original founders, Sun-Line’s appears to be from the new investors who found out they are over their head in running a viable manufacturing business, thought the bottom line bucks might be easy. Sun-Line did build a good quality trailer, and the ex-dealer is right, they were too much money. A few years back, for us to start up with the line, they offered us big $$$ back after the shipment was floorplanned, payable to us personally. We did not sign as a dealer, only because they were overpriced.

]]> By: mark vanostrand http://www.rvtradedigest.com/interactive/2006/11/15/screwed-enron-style/#comment-133 mark vanostrand Tue, 21 Nov 2006 19:08:30 +0000 http://www.rvtradedigest.com/interactive/2006/11/15/screwed-enron-style/#comment-133 Greg, For a company that called itself "the lightweight leader", Sunline let everyone pass them by. Instead the owners chose to remain a "stick and tin" manufacturer. "Stick and tin is alive and well but at entry level pricing. Sunlines were anything but affordable. As a Sunline dealer for 35 years, I've had numerous conversations with managment imploring them to convert to aluminum framing and a laminated side-wall. My suggestions fell on deaf ears. We stopped selling Sunlines 10 months a go. A tough decision after all those years, but in the end, the right decision. I feel badly for the new owners who purchased a sinking ship and did'nt know it. Greg,
For a company that called itself “the lightweight leader”, Sunline let everyone pass them by. Instead the owners chose to remain a “stick and tin” manufacturer. “Stick and tin is alive and well but at entry level pricing. Sunlines were anything but affordable. As a Sunline dealer for 35 years, I’ve had numerous conversations with managment imploring them to convert to aluminum framing and a laminated side-wall. My suggestions fell on deaf ears. We stopped selling Sunlines 10 months a go. A tough decision after all those years, but in the end, the right decision. I feel badly for the new owners who purchased a sinking ship and did’nt know it.

]]> By: Chuck Arnett http://www.rvtradedigest.com/interactive/2006/11/15/screwed-enron-style/#comment-131 Chuck Arnett Tue, 21 Nov 2006 06:29:04 +0000 http://www.rvtradedigest.com/interactive/2006/11/15/screwed-enron-style/#comment-131 As a newbie this sounds pretty disheartening to think this could happen to any company any time if I was involved at this time very heavily with this company as a start up I would probably have to close my doors. There is good news though I see a note from Alaskan Campers that they may want to purchase the name and assets, this sounds great they are a large enough company I think and they are from my home state. As a newbie this sounds pretty disheartening to think this could happen to any company any time if I was involved at this time very heavily with this company as a start up I would probably have to close my doors. There is good news though I see a note from Alaskan Campers that they may want to purchase the name and assets, this sounds great they are a large enough company I think and they are from my home state.

]]> By: Chris Dougherty http://www.rvtradedigest.com/interactive/2006/11/15/screwed-enron-style/#comment-130 Chris Dougherty Tue, 21 Nov 2006 00:25:37 +0000 http://www.rvtradedigest.com/interactive/2006/11/15/screwed-enron-style/#comment-130 Greg, I usually follow and agree with you, but I'm not so sure I can in this case. I happen to agree with the first respondent to an extent; its not as though, I would imagine, the management of Sunline had been planning and wondering how they could manage to go bankrupt and screw everyone imaginable. I agree, that waiting five days to spill the beans to the dealers might have been re-thought, but I can only imagine the psychological pain involved with the failure of a company like Sunline. I'd be vomiting blood by the middle of the process!But that's me; perhaps some people in buisiness are so callous that it wouldn't phase them. Knowing Sunline's products, however, I would tend to doubt that's the case here. It's unfortunate that there wasn't better business presence, or another way out, but I am forced to make comparisons with another related industry. The industry I refer to has been suffering foreign competition, and of late, has been suffering financial loss and may be once again receiving government aid. I am, of course, refering to the auto industry in the USA. The thing is, that the US auto industry has had its design and quality problems. Sunline's products were excellent, even if they were old fashioned, stick and tin trailers. I owned one once, and I adored it. In working in this business six years now, I have never worked on a Sunline trailer for repairs; only accessories. That says something to me, as a service shop. The last writer wrote "The employees, suppliers, dealers and the RV industry deserve a better explanation than what has been forthcoming out of Pennsylvania the past week." What more do you want? These people, including the management, have lost everything! There is NEVER a good time to declare, or be forced into bankruptcy, and I am hopeful that some good, in the form of a buyer, can come of this. That said, I agree that some bad decisions were obviously made, but that, unfortunately, happens. NOT knowing the persons involved, or knowing the books, etc, or being a fly on the wall, this mis-management doesn't make the people involved red with horns and a pitch-forked tail. Let's, as an industry, learn from this. IF the development of the new product led to this, that's too bad, but it's a gamble many business people are likely to take. How do you take a company like Sunline to the next level? I think there are other companies in this business that really need to learn from this before they make a similar mistake(s). Everyone involved will be in my thoughts this holiday season. Greg,
I usually follow and agree with you, but I’m not so sure I can in this case. I happen to agree with the first respondent to an extent; its not as though, I would imagine, the management of Sunline had been planning and wondering how they could manage to go bankrupt and screw everyone imaginable. I agree, that waiting five days to spill the beans to the dealers might have been re-thought, but I can only imagine the psychological pain involved with the failure of a company like Sunline. I’d be vomiting blood by the middle of the process!But that’s me; perhaps some people in buisiness are so callous that it wouldn’t phase them. Knowing Sunline’s products, however, I would tend to doubt that’s the case here.
It’s unfortunate that there wasn’t better business presence, or another way out, but I am forced to make comparisons with another related industry. The industry I refer to has been suffering foreign competition, and of late, has been suffering financial loss and may be once again receiving government aid. I am, of course, refering to the auto industry in the USA. The thing is, that the US auto industry has had its design and quality problems. Sunline’s products were excellent, even if they were old fashioned, stick and tin trailers. I owned one once, and I adored it. In working in this business six years now, I have never worked on a Sunline trailer for repairs; only accessories. That says something to me, as a service shop.
The last writer wrote “The employees, suppliers, dealers and the RV industry deserve a better explanation than what has been forthcoming out of Pennsylvania the past week.” What more do you want? These people, including the management, have lost everything! There is NEVER a good time to declare, or be forced into bankruptcy, and I am hopeful that some good, in the form of a buyer, can come of this. That said, I agree that some bad decisions were obviously made, but that, unfortunately, happens. NOT knowing the persons involved, or knowing the books, etc, or being a fly on the wall, this mis-management doesn’t make the people involved red with horns and a pitch-forked tail. Let’s, as an industry, learn from this. IF the development of the new product led to this, that’s too bad, but it’s a gamble many business people are likely to take. How do you take a company like Sunline to the next level? I think there are other companies in this business that really need to learn from this before they make a similar mistake(s).
Everyone involved will be in my thoughts this holiday season.

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